Alright folks, it’s time for us to grow as a group! Each year we always strive to hit our marks and improve ourselves, and we always welcome the community’s compliments and criticisms. We can see lots of room for improvement, but also look to the alternative viewpoints and voices of our attendees. Let’s hear it!
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30-48-odd+ hours of absolutely non-stop techno and dub-step music is really quite exhausting, especially when you weren’t planning on it, weren’t planning on having it pointed at your camp, and have no recourse and there is no variety.
I don’t want to harsh on anyone’s experience, especially if they are out there to play music at all hours of the day and night at volume 11, but it was certainly a buzzkill for me and several other campers in red and green camps that I talked to over the weekend.
I’d love to see proposed a 2:1 or something ratio for music/quiet time during the day and early evening until party time really kicks off. 2 hours music, 1 hour quiet type thing.
Just to note Polybun, we do have quiet hours in Red Camp 2am to 10am. That isn’t to say ‘off’ but at a level that Green Camp should be able to sleep. Generally this wasn’t a problem that I can recall occurring every night (I heard it brought up amongst staff once, and experiencing it once in green camp myself following the same night) because most horns are pretty well tooted by that point.
@Polybun: Let’s keep things civil here, and avoid personal insults directed at your fellow campers? We’re all friends here.
First, the things I thought that went really well:
- The movie screen in red camp was awesome. Whoever set that up, amazing job. Please bring it back next year!
- Red camp had a lot more ambiance this year. Again, props to the folks over there for all the creativity.
- As always, the kitchen staff did an amazing job. Most of the meals were even on time this year!
- Crazy Joe’s shower setup continues to make camping luxurious.
A few issues I either noticed myself or overheard from other folks:
- Red camp’s dance area was located right next to the green camp border this year. In the past, it was much further back. As a result, a few folks in green camp told me they got a lot more noise than in past years. (I even heard from a couple long-time green campers who were considering moving to blue as a result. And these were people who aren’t really sensitive to noise.)
- Even in blue camp, the music from red camp was still very audible. It didn’t bother me personally, but I did hear it. Not sure if the speakers were louder this year, or if it was due to the different layout. But definitely a change from past years.
Not saying turn the music off (as noted up thread, some folks really do enjoy it!), but maybe locate the loudest things further back from the center of camp, or play around with the speaker arrangement so it’s pushing the sound into the forest and not into the middle of camp.
As an additional data point: The movie screen’s audio was perfect. Very easy to hear in red camp, but didn’t bleed over into the surrounding camps.
- A lot of happenings seemed to get canceled this year. It’s CFT, so it’s somewhat expected, but it seemed to be a much more frequent occurrence. (For example: The temple burn never happened.)
- When events did get canceled, there wasn’t any announcements. More communication would be nice. (Again: Temple burn.)
- Battle Of The Brightest seemed to be a much bigger event in the past. Same goes for the water gun battle. Bring those back to their former glory!
- The showers had a lot of flooding, and probably needs elevated walkways so you don’t have to walk through puddles. (I think Joe is aware of this, but just here as a reminder for next year.)
- There were folks driving/camping in the hiking-only area of the forest. It’s obviously outside the CFT staff’s control, but it would have been nice if the park rangers had a talk with them. Especially given the increased fire danger this year.
- Like in past years, we seemed to get quite a few outside “visitors” wandering into camp from the day use area, either from the main road or the border of blue camp. Not sure what to do about this, but most of the time the greeter booth was unmanned… which probably didn’t help.
Breaking out that 3d grade toughness, that’s badass.
Seriously, music was running well before and after ‘quiet hours’ (3am soundtrack while i’m taking a leak…) for red camp. I’m one of the folks who would be down for full time music, but some variety in that music. i also think the OPs suggestion of time on and off would be kinda nifty. Party hours? Rock and roll! Meal times and between 2a and 10a? quiet’s kinda rad as a break.
I love the idea of running music - makes the whole thing feel very ‘live.’ That said, i’d agree, some variety, input, and quiet breaks would be neat for next year.
I think it should be that way. It should be a bit out of control. It should make some people uncomfortable.
On musical variety, there was plenty. I had my own play list, hops had his, fox gloves had his. A change in music was as simple as changing which camp you were in.
Call me what ever you want- sticks and stones, that whole bit- but just because it’s Red camp doesn’t mean that a single person should be able to unilaterally take over the entirety of every day and night’s entertainment for every single camper IN red camp, and some of green as well.
We chose this spot because we wanted to be up and meet people, see the night life, and not have to restrain our joviality, or our music, or audio books to ‘normal’ quiet hours. 0200 is a perfectly reasonable time to ask that people be respectful of their neighbors and turn things down some, IMO.
We didn’t choose our spot poorly; we chose it to be social, with the understanding that the nights would be later than usual. Nobody asked us this year if they could play music 24 hours a day, we just got it. And nobody asked if they could point their 11 speaker boxes almost directly at our camp. Why not point them towards the empty woods, and parking lot? Or actually at red camp?
The music (mostly the bass line) was still audible in blue camp and down at the stream all the way over at the day use area.
Dude, also consider one thing before you continue spouting off. I waited until AFTER the con, commenting in on the FEEDBACK forum thread, about something I thought could have been done better.
Instead of asking someone to kill their entertainment during their vacation, I waited to offer it as feedback for how to potentially better the sound control for next year. Whether my patronage was soured by the event or not is at this point immaterial, the deed is done and I hold no ill will towards anyone. I enjoyed my time at CFT.
SteveFoxx and I were going to mention elevated walkways for the showers as well.
Would be happy to donate a few bucks towards buying or building!
So I’m coming at this front a first timer’s perspective while ignoring the defensive/snarky nature of Poly’s posts.
Gonna follow Moka’s idea here and start with what I liked and thought went well.
Holy shit the showers. Those were not talked down in any sense and I loved them. I agree about the puddles and would also be happy to contribute some money for materials.
Red camp was amazing for being full of creative people, having art supplies, places to go to do art, that was awesome.
The Temple. I dunno if that’s normally supposed to go up on the last day or not, but that would have been a great safe place earlier in the weekend as well. I loved having it on the last day and if it’s a matter of help getting it up for sooner, I’ll help next year.
The movie screen was DEFINITELY an awesome setup. People were also super respectful of not standing in front of people, so please please bring that back.
Safety tent. That is all
Onto the things that I think could be improved upon, general thoughts/complaints.
- Music was a huge one. I appreciated that there was some slight variance by playing things like 80’s music, but it being mostly similar sounds, techno, dubstep, whatever, it did start to wear out it’s welcome. I also heard complaints from other campers about the music being too loud when I was among green camp or at the kitchen area. Turning the speakers to a different direction would have helped in keeping the sounds from reaching Blue camp at the very least. I had to play my own music by my head just so I couldn’t hear music from red-camp in my personal tent in Green camp.
-------- Which poses a side note. I understand wanting to be closer to the center so they can socialize. Having times where the music is only pointed at red camp, turning the music down so that maybe it’s only really audible around where the speakers are, quiet times during the day so we can appreciate the music more when it’s on, etc… those are all little things that could be done to help lower the amount of music reaching the other camps. Also bear in mind that there were plenty of times where no-one was at the booth, even to hang out. Those might be awesome times to turn the music down a little (during the day at least)
- Events. It seemed like Serephina was the one mostly in charge of those and, from what I could see, was overwhelmed trying to get it all organized. I loved what was planned and was looking forward to them, but they were mostly resting on volunteers or Serephina. I would suggest maybe a 2-5 person event team to help get those organized, setup, gathered, etc… Even just having 2 designated people (aside from Serephina, who would be something like the Event Coordinator with everything she was doing) may have helped in getting the papers ready for the Temple burn. I don’t know how many people are willing to do something like that, but i think it would help to have, even just a few, people who are in charge of the events so that if one person is exhausted, there is/are still another/others who can help get the events going for the camp.
Those were my two only real problems that I saw. I hadn’t noticed “visitors” but I was still learning 170 new faces so meh. Anywho, either way I had lots of fun there and thought all in all, it was pretty damn fun.
Uhhhhhh, the speakers were pointed at the opposite side of red camp. Directly at my camp most of the time, towards the movie theatre, that sort of direction. It was great, I could actually feel it in my tent.
And if wasn’t dub step at all. Most of the time it was a sort of experimental/house/ambient sort of tunes. In fact, the only speaker setup pointed at green camp were the speakers on the movie theater.
Then there was the setup rocking out of my dodge which varied from chip to 1960 billboard top 100 to psychobilly to classic rock.
There are a lot of people here taking out of thier ass. I have every right to lay into flat out liars and not too be very nice about it.
Nobody is forced to stay in a certain spot out there, nobody is given a spot. If you don’t like where you are at you can move your camp. There was plenty of open spots in red camp, and lots of open spots in blue camp. Green was fairly packed.
But no, rather than move your camp, you’re going to insist others conform to your life style, and ignore the other options. That makes you hella lame.
So, instead of helping to work with a large number of people who, one, camped where they camp because that’s their preference because of people, placement, convenience, not wanting to be woken up early, etc… You want to argue that there was nothing wrong with the music setup? I think that’s arrogant and self centered. YOU are not the only person that matters in how the music was affecting others. The fact that the bass could be heard in BLUE camp should say something about the noise levels.
And you’re just asking others to do what people are suggesting YOU to do. Move the setup, move the camp. People also camp in the Green camp because they want to stay up later. Blue camp has an earlier quiet time, so moving during because most of the issues with the music happened during the DAY, when the music was far too loud for their preference is hypocritical of you. That’s a larger amount of people moving versus a setup that can be shifted and adjusted to increase the enjoyment for the whole camp, not one group. Especially if the adjustments for the setup are done during the initial setup. Then it could be put on a trial run during the camp, if it doesn’t work, then at the end people can re-convene to see if a compromise can be reached again, or a new setup that still benefits all parties.
Also, if MULTIPLE people or GROUPS of people are commenting on the fact that the music was interfering with their experience on varying levels probably means that you should take the constructive criticisms people are trying to provide to help improve THEIR experience while not hampering down too much on the original setup or people involved with the music setup. Especially is most of the complaining about the music levels happened during the day, not during the night when the major hustle and bustle happened.
Nobody is saying that it’s all bad, that it should be taken down, that it’s placement NEEDS to be moved. They’re giving suggestions in an attempt to compromise so that music can still be enjoyed WITHOUT interfering with the camp’s experience as a whole. This is a forum to make suggestions to BETTER the experiences for next year. So stop being so defensive as if it’s a direct attack on you.
Or, Like 6 people, including you. And 2 of us were directly across from the tent. As Nicholas commented, we selected that spot because, last year, it was an awesome place to meet new people and be social, and that didn’t change this year. But not having a choice about how long/loud/select content of the near full time sound-track wasn’t anything we expected. And when I go to make a head-call at 3A and music is still on? Less than awesome. But, to be fair to the folks wit that set up? It wasn’t 24/7 Noise-core, so thank you for that.
And no-one is asking for anyone else to, quote, "conform to your life style,’ just a little conformity to the rules.
Then we also have the right to say that you’re a whiner and you can suck it. You have your opinion and we have ours. You are ONE person versus a group of people who didn’t appreciate hearing the music at all hours of the day in Green camp or at the Mess tents during meal times.
If you have no hand in the setup, then you’re NOT the one that the suggestions are directed to.
The thing is, a 24 hour atmosphere of activity I think is part of red camp. Non stop party. I stayed up all night Saturday and it was a good time. If you missed that seen at dawn on Sunday you lost.
Also, fix gloves had his system silent most of Saturday. He didn’t get out of bed till around 6 that evening. Again, people talking or of thier ass. Friday morning was also pretty silent, disappointingly so, even though i was nursing a major hang over.
Hell the only seriously loud evening was Thursday night. The others were pretty damn mild in comparison.
Thats why I say these people are fucking full of it. Just whiners bitching, and are to be dismissed and ignored.
Hell the event chair came and visited Sunday morning, didn’t have shit to say other than it was fucking cold, and it was! I offered the poor sob some coffee.
“It should make some people uncomfortable.”
Polybun’s quote above seems to be a key factor in terms of difference of opinions. If an event is setting out to be as over the top as possible, then perhaps that quote is accurate. That’s not the vibe I got from CFT’s website, or from CFT as a whole. Is there partying? Yes! Lots of noise? A-yup. Other R+ rated stuff going on? You betcha. But almost all of it seemed reasonable and expected for this kind of event.
The notion that an event like CFT should strive to “make some people uncomfortable” is silly. It’ll never be for everyone, but that doesn’t mean it should go out of its way to push people away because they can’t handle it. Obviously, what with the multiple camps, CFT is meant to be inclusive. Blasting music so loudly in Red that you can easily hear it in Blue seems to go against that inclusion. That said, I only noticed it the first night of the set-up (I think Thursday?). I either adjusted and tuned it out, or they turned it down somewhat for the other nights.
Anyway, I had a wonderful time, and most of the small changes I’d make next year are to my own “what do” decisions. I caught a lot of cool stuff, but I missed some other stuff because I also used CFT to fill my “I NEED TO CAMP!!” gas tank.
As a first-time CFTer, these are the things I loved:
Food. Showers (that was a pleasant surprise!). The inclusion of Happenings in general. The “swimming pool” in the creek. The overall cleanliness (truly, with that many people there, I expected the place to get trashed and I was happy to see it didn’t get too bad). And probably at the top of my list: Timber’s COFFEE GODLINESS (I forget who else was part of the Coffee Fairy Brigade… was it Morse?). I can’t thank you guys enough for the coffee. ^_~
The things I’d change:
Navigation of Happenings. For a first-timer, there were a couple things I ended up missing because of, “Where the hell is that?” Now, ultimately, this won’t matter for next year. And it COULD have not mattered this year if I had just grabbed a random someone by the arm and asked. ^_~ Like I said above, my “things I’d change” list really applies to my own actions, not to the con itself. This con fucking rocks, and I’ll be going back.
This year overall was quite great, though it felt a little more “mellow” than previous to me.
That being said, the good things I have to say:
- Kitchen: Great job this year on keeping all the meals (I was present for, yay diet) consistently on time or very very close to it, awesome job you guys!
- Showers: Because I gotta point out each year, that having access to a hot shower while camping is a godsend and Joe should be aware that his contribution and hard work is extremely appreciated.
- The movie theater was an awesome idea, even if I didn’t realize it was there till later in the weekend xD
- Shade in the kitchen area thanks to all the monkey hut setups
Now onto some of my gripes along with ones I heard from others:
Music: Now personally I’ve come to expect some music late into the night, even being someone who camps in blue. The wubs are just something I figure will be a thing on Saturday night most of all. And as I was one of those who stayed up really late on Saturday night for security reasons, I heard plenty of music from the front of our sleeping area quite clearly at 2am.
That being said, I heard from several other friends that they are considering moving into Blue camp next year because of the constant barrage of music.
Event Planning: There were several events I heard didn’t happen due to planning, missing items for the event or because there wasn’t available personnel to conduct said event.
-Battle of the brightest feels to me like it has died, not sure what happened this year.
-I didn’t even know there was a water battle, specifically I didn’t even know when it was to happen and heard no announcements.
-The temple/effigy burn appeared to have fallen on it’s face.
People seem really divided on the music/noise. I always camp on the border of red and green (on the opposite side of speaker set up) and it did get pretty loud at times. I even could feel the bass while lying in bed at one point. It’s not an issue for me, I sleep through everything just fine but I can see it taking some people by surprise. Knowing what to expect in what areas is helpful. While it is possible to move your tent, it would be a pain so being able to plan ahead is a better option. This is a learning experience though and I understand that some stuff was kind of spontaneous. I think communication is helpful and if someone had/has a problem they should bring it up in a polite manner. I’m sure people are willing to work with each other. I hope I don’t see any more derisive comments on here, that’s not the CFT vibe.
I had a great experience this year, best so far in my opinion. I don’t have any suggestions that haven’t already been mentioned, but if I think of any I’ll add them. I just want to say thank you so much to staff, volunteers and Crazy Joe for doing so much for us. I’m excited and looking forward to next year as always.
This was my first CFT, and I had an overall great time.
People have already mentioned a lot of the things that went great:
- The food was good
- The shirts and other swag were awesome
- Everything stayed relatively clean and untrashed
- Everyone I met was awesome
- People kept checking on me while I was lying down stargazing, just in case I was unwell
Some of the things that could be improved have already been mentioned, but I’ll reiterate my main ones and add a few:
- It was really tough to find out what was going on. It was nearly impossible to hear the kitchen bell or any announcements where I was in red camp.
- The tavern needed a sign or something. It took me a while to figure out where it was.
- The big speakers were playing weird noises like sine waves and fake nature sounds early in the morning. I didn’t mind the music, but the weird noises woke me up through my earplugs because it sounded like an alien invasion. And we’re already in nature, so we don’t need fake nature sounds.
- I wanted to see the temple burn.
- The lost and found didn’t seem to work very well. No one knew where it was, and the stuff I lost never ended up there.