I will say this, a bit of rock was highly appreciated! The ambient was nice too. I bring earplugs when I go camping so most noise gets blocked out, I suggest anyone who sometimes finds late night sound to be annoying, or especially in the early morning people talking or driving around go get earplugs at a drugstore, they really help. Hearos are a good brand, but most of the soft style, often yellow/red or colors like that are fine and not too uncomfortable.
Agreeing with the majority of folks in here re: the music issue. One of the great things about camping is being able to reconnect with nature, and while Iâm absolutely down with music and dancing, hearing it well after curfew hours at unreasonable volume levels all across camp really kind of soured the experience.
At 85 decibels, continuous sound (any kind of sound â trucks idling, power tools, music playing, etc) can cause permanent hearing damage after eight hours of exposure; at 100 decibels, that exposure time can shrink to as little as fifteen minutes before damage sets in. My three tentmates and I (one of whom is a three-time CFT veteran) stayed in Red Camp, and though we stayed up late and fully realized that itâs the more active camping zone, we all experienced severe noise-induced headaches and sleep loss throughout this yearâs trip. My husband is already significantly hearing impaired, so getting exposed to a constant concert-level sonic barrage was especially concerning.
Iâm not arguing music should be cut out of the equation at all, even campwide music! But some steps we might take to improve this situation in 2017 might be:
- Designating a specific, isolated part of the campground as âdance spaceâ.
- Scheduling blocks of time as raves rather than allowing music to play cotinuously.
- Requiring DJs and dance space coordinators to apply through CFT staff, and reviewing camp noise level regulations with all applicants before approval.
- Curfew patrol. Nobody wants it, but if this is going to be a problem in the future, we need some way to make sure everyoneâs playing by the rules.
This yearâs CFT was my first, and for the most part I had a great time. I donât really have many other complaints (from ascending to descending priority: poor bathroom conditions, lack of adequate vegetarian lunch options, disorganized events), but I really wanted to address this issue before anything else. If we treat music setups with organization and respect for attendees like any indoor furry convention would, we can make sure everyone can enjoy their weekend in a healthy manner no matter what theyâve come for-- partying, or peace.
This yearâs CFT was enjoyable as usual. I did notice a large amount of events that were cancelled or just didnât happen. I personally had trouble keeping time with a smartwatch and phone I never bothered charging.
Maybe we could find some way to help campers keep time better. Something that rings or chimes on the hour so all camp can hear? Large digital clocks placed in strategic locations round camp?
Another problem I noticed myself and heard others talk about a lot. Placement of large camps.
Some were place sub optimally for sound, some were difficult to find, etc.
Proposed solution to this is have folks with theme camps (movie camp, sound camps, art camps, etc.) to submit and get a set location beforehand. That way we can plan camps out optimally for a good experience and tell campers to set up around them. A map here listing the locations of large camps would be useful and would help all of us find those camps as well as I apparently missed out on a lot again this year.
A second map showing expected sound levels and recommended camping locations based on large camps would be helpful as well. Not all parts of green camp will be as loud as other parts for instance.
On top of that, besides the basic difficulties we experience during camping, everything was pretty amazing this year! Thanks staff for all of your hard work and hope I can bring a theme camp to CFT next year. Plans for a tiki bar camp and hangout area are underway.
I agree, there were things I heard about afterwards that had me going âwhen the hell did that happen? And where?â
I had a lot of fun this year unlike last year where I was quite bored at some times.
The music playing all night for me was a plus especially when the DJs were gone and we had good chill music to hang out with. The sound was also quite low, and where I was in green camp, about 50ft from the sound system I slept without earplugs fine, and I tend to be bothered by noise.
I thought the screen was a great addition, mostly because of how it was rigged, I actually didnât really watch the movies, it was too cold for that without a fire. Iâm glad we got it sorted and working.
The food was great, and this year the cold cuts were nice ham, and the warm food plentyful (last year I was starving).
No matter how hard our water dragon worked it, Iâm sad to say the planning of events and announcements need to be reworked. The costume contest was unatended, BOB was a non battle, drink fest a bust. The water fight meh except for the beginning where we shot each other, and the end at the waterfall where there were floating toys. I attribute all the failures to a lack of CLEAR schedule, rallying, and timing of them to make them unavoidable yet convenient too.
The other spontaneous events worked well (cider, absynth) but all in all could also have used some planning help to get scheduled right.
For example: I would schedule the constume contest during dinner, AND make sure the contestants are fed properly without doubt. Then I would run it before seconds are offered, while everyone is there.
I would schedule board game room with games.
I would make sure the safety tent has a fire tender so itâs on and always welcoming.
I would make sure thereâs a congregation point all night. This year the fire next to the sound system was a great spot. Last year it was the burner/artist monkey huts.
i missed the ass competition sadly 
but I hope it was happening. had I stayed I think I would have entered the competition.
I donât really have many other complaints (from ascending to descending priority: poor bathroom conditions, lack of adequate vegetarian lunch options, disorganized events)
Iâm going to put a disclaimer in the beginning just because text and Internet⌠^.~ Iâm saying this only as my point of view, and I am by no means trying to say your opinions are wrong! ^.^
From what Iâve experienced, the bathrooms were actually pretty well kept. This was my first time coming to CFT, but by no means my first time doing large-group camping. In my experience, most vaults in large-group camping get utterly thrashed. These vaults, by comparison, were pretty darn clean. Considering how much booze n stuff were around camp, Iâm frankly surprised (in a happy way) they were in such a good state.
Secondly, there were vegetarian lunches, but they were at sponsor/patron level. I know this 'cause I had the veggie options for every single meal except for the chicken satay (because that shit was AMAZING 
). My guess is that theyâre reserved for sponsor/patron because it costs more money to provide more food options. That said, what did you have in mind? Iâm curious because Iâm wondering if a few of us could plan an option or two. The kitchen staff did say that they were going to choose a âwinning submissionâ for a meal next year. Perhaps thatâs a way to try to get another option on the menu. 
You just reminded me of something! Yay, you!
Was that big-ass fire pit in the middle of the mess hall ever used, aside from Critterâs morning bacon-cooking? (And where the hell is Critter in terms of an online presence? I miss him already!) If not, can we plan something big for its use next year? Iâm guessing part of the problem is that itâs close to Blue camp, but what about something in the evening instead of at night? (E.g., @amenophisâs idea about the costume contest during dinner.) Itâs a bummer to let that fire space go unused. If I just utterly missed its use, well, I attribute that to wandering elsewhere at night due to not knowing any better. ^.~
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This was my fourth CFT and every time has been a good experience, but different each year. Had an especially good time this year meeting new people and catching up with those I only see at camp.
Food has always been good, and it is reassuring to see such a smooth handoff between head cooks.
Events were somewhat erratic, but theyâre like a party - you never know what will work or wonât. For me itâs fine to roll with the things that work and not worry about those that donât.
I was aware of the music in Blue but wasnât troubled by it though some nights it did seem to run pretty late.
Thanks to the staff for their time, effort, and enthusiasm!
Only bummer for me was a number of absent friends. :â(
Overall great event. No real complaints. We did our own food this year to avoid the lines and set our own meal times. I hear that the event food improved, so that was nice for those who partook. It wasnât bad last year, just a bit inconvenient.
The bathrooms were kept clean that I saw. They should probably consider replacing those collapsible water cubes. The one by ours was a leaking mess and doused more than one persons feet when the cap came off. Bathrooms themselves, actually pretty okay. We decorated ours with candles and flowers from the dollar store because hey, why not. People seemed amused/bemused by it.
Hiking was good, area was pretty as always, people mostly seemed to pick up their trash and stuff. We did see a couple people in red campâs center section, no idea who, stumbling out of camp mid day and pissing on the trees. Happened at least twice. Bathroom was like, seriously 40 ft away. I know weâve all been too fucked up to find the bathroom, and itâs the woods sure, but come on, the shitter was like, RIGHT there. Someone peeâd behind the bathroom. Not sure how you get so close and miss the hole by like 4 feet.
Still, that said, things were clean otherwise. If people are fussing about these things they likely have never worked construction, used regular outhouses at large events, or been to burning man. Yâall ainât lived till youâve seen a porta john literally overflowing out the door. The horror.
As to the hotly contended sound issue of red camp, Iâve mixed feelings here.
As a burner Iâve been around some pretty big sound systems, art cars, and noisy as hell camps. With an event that big you get a situation where things sort of level out on their own. Usually itâs not with shouting down of annoying camps. Most of the time itâs via just chatting with people durrinâ the day and bringing up whatever was an issue. Most people in person are pretty friendly about stuff. A lot of that gets lost and sideways online and in forums when people are safely behind a keyboard.
I know from our half of the camp there was a drunken 3AM burst of sound that lasted about 4 songs and was pretty rough if your tent was near the source as mine and several others were. The sound was turned down to barely audible when I politely noted it was kinda loud, and that it was 3am. My mate completely slept through it with earplugs and we were probably 10 ft from the source. The next morning apologies were expressed about the tunes so late. Being hammered and losing track of time contributed to that I think. I didnât mind the rock, though the glitch was a bit rough on a hungover brain.
That sort of thing happens all the time at bigger events. Unfortunately at smaller events like CFT situations like that stand out more clearly as thereâs less going on to obscure them.
Honestly that particular incident annoyed me, but it was resolved pretty quick and diplomatically. We didnât hear anything further about it at the time, or afterwords from attendees or camp staff, who did come by and do the rounds on a pretty regular basis and are always cool to chat with.
I looked up in the event guide what the sound cutoff was and it wasnât really clear to me what the curfew hours were. I think this might be a notable failure on plannings part by not making that sound cut off clearly defined and obvious.
My thought is that if there is going to be a red camp, every single person entering the event, wether camping there or not, should be told by the person at the gate something like ââŚand if yourâe going to be in Red Camp, the sound turn down is 10pm and hard cutoff is 12pm.â
I honestly didnât know what it was till I looked at the event guide out of curiosity on Sunday. I know the movies ran longer than that, as did the other camps.
Iâm probably calibrated differently than folks that havenât been to BM, as I find noise till sunup normal, and in most, but not all, cases pretty easy to ignore.
I might also suggest camp markers set up by the event before hand. Maybe string ribbons between the trees or around the trees in bows or some such to denote which areas are designated loud. Possibly with a buffer area between the noise camp and the rest. There are fairly easy solutions to this issue that could be rather painlessly implemented.
It would I think be a shame to remove the sound camps, or to so limit them that people donât want to go to the effort to bring out their equipment. Theyâre not getting paid to do this, theyâre doing it for fun and if they have to jump through a bunch of hurdles to do it, theyâre simply not going to.
In the future, communication between staff, people wanting to do loud things, and general guests is a must. You canât have the guy at the gate giving out information being stoned/drunk or completely missing (as was the case the previous year) and expect guests to have a comprehensive idea of what is going on when they arrive.
Markers for camp zones would help tremendously, and coordination ahead of time, and at the event with placement of loud stuff would really smooth some of these wrinkles.
That said, great event. I enjoyed it this year as much as last year and look forward to an even better time next year! Thanks for putting on this event, and thanks for coming out, those who did, to be part of our pretty neat fuzzy camping trip.
So folks need to clairify something for me here, you hate the music but loved the theater. Here is the thing, every night the theater was in operation it went well past curfew. Does that mean the theater must shut down by 10? Because if thatâs the case you arenât going to have it. By the time the sky is dark enough to show a movie there isnât enough time to show even one feature length movie.
Now reduced volume levels so that blue camp doesnât have to listen to it is reasonable, but expecting red camp to shut down, at all, ever, to me is unreasonable. There isnât any reason at all it shouldnât run all night long.
To clarify, when I said it wasnât for everyone in red camp, I meant exactly that. I didnât mean that cft wasnât for everyone. Red camp is no more of a fit for everyone than blue camp is a fit for me. Thatâs why there are seperate camps. If you canât handle activity going on around you 24/7 then red camp is the wrong place for you. It had a bit of the vibe of a minature burning man this year.
I had a fucking great time in red camp. It would be disappointing as hell to see it change. Someone here suggested you not do anything you wouldnât do at a hotel con. Thatâs stupid. The entire point here is that we can get away with things that you could never rightly do in a hotel atmosphere, and thatâs one of the wonderful and unique aspects of CFT. If you want the PC nature and restrictive 4 walls of a hotel con, go to a hotel con.
Oh, the temple burn. I wanted to see that thing burn as much as anyone but I think there were logistical problems with setting that thing on fire. It would have been pretty irresponsible of us to set that thing on fire given the conditions. I was shocked to see we were allowed camp fires at all. That place was a freakinâ tinder box! The rules are pretty specific on this (as per the forest service), fires only in established fire pits. I really canât imagine a time during CFT that the fire danger out there wonât be extreme. You would have to have the con in early spring to avoid that, and even then, out there in the high desert, the fire danger is nearly always present.
That brings me to something positive to say. Man people were good about tending fires and being responsible with fire! I saw a fire extinquisher in many camps. Good job to everyone on taking the reality of camping in the middle of fire season seriously. Thatâs the one thing we can do that the forest service will notice. Itâs also the one thing that if one person screws it up, is very likely to be the end of the con. The forest service is pretty flexible on their rules but the one thing they donât screw around about is fire safety.
On events, I dunno, I rather like the ad hoc nature of events there. A very fluid and spontaneous atmosphere prevailed and while, that lead to some people missing out on this or that, also attributed to a feeling of having zero worries. No rigid schedule, no real responsiblities outside of not demolishing the camp site and keeping yourself alive. Given the very structured and scheduled lives most of us working stiffs have to live, getting to spend the better part of the week not giving two fucks what time it was felt nice.
as repeated multiple times, the complaints were mostly hearing the music during the DAY and was tolerated at night, even in blue camp even though they grumbled a bit because realistically, that was meant to be a quiet zone at night. So their complaints are valid in regards to that and should be welcome to request in a shift of the setup and maybe an agreement on times where the music is lowered or off.
Again, you are one voice of many, others have the right to disagree, no matter how vehemently you defend it. You did not do the setup, the criticisms are not for you. You would be welcome to camp next to the stereo setup to get the shaking in your tent without it having to effect the WHOLE camp, all the way down to blue, during the middle of the day when everyone is just chilling and relaxing.
Thanks, @Kuwa! It was a real pleasure to meet you and @Astrius23 and talk a bit that one morning. The coffee was mostly @Morseâs baby, I just provided some logistical and moral support. Itâll be back next year for sure, and probably spread a little more widely across camp - we had a favorable response to doing a small evening round of coffee on Sunday, and weâre going to try and do a little bit more to make it clear when and where the coffee will be available.
Wait, the complaints about the sound were in the day time? The time when realistically most people are awake, out doing stuff, and ya know, socializing?
If thereâs fussing about noise at night or early morning I can understand that, we all like to sleep, particularly when weâre hung over. Daytime noise complaints, I dunno man. If itâs too loud take a hike, go up creek to the waterfall or bridge, drive to town, drink more so you donât care, etc.
Itâs a very pretty area, and the point of going out to such a place is generally to explore it, not have a room con minus the room. I spose we all go out there for different reasons but âthe furry con was too loud durrinâ the dayâ seems like a pretty milktoast complaint. Tell that to a regular fur con / festival / Burning Man and see how that works out.
As a side note, there was plenty of camping space, and tent stakes are not permanent, one time use fixtures.
I imagine next year there will be some changes. I think a buffer zone and more clear instructions right from the gate entry time about pointing your speakers away from the other camps would go a long way. That sort of thing is something to know about durrinâ setup, not once a camp is established and has thrown all their sound and theme gear out.
This is a growing event, and these sorts of logistics will iron themselves out over time via trial and error. From what I saw, the individual sound groups played nice with eachother. They turned down for (what) movies, and did not try to compete over eachother. There was a nice back and forth on the music, when one group would go off to dinner another group would put on some tunes, usually of a different style, and when they came back and started up again the others would quiet to in camp levels.
If there are complaints about this sort of thing, there were solutions to be had, one of which was moving to a quieter spot further down, or talking to event staff at the time the offending music was being played. Getting on a web forum about it well after the event, and far after when a one on one chat could have taken place is really not the best way to go about things.
Ostensibly weâre all adults and can talk to one another in a civil manner. Yâall catch more flies with honey than vinegar as they say.
They turned down for (what)
This guy likes the music loud enough to shred his jacket to smithereens! 
I had to. Sorry-not-sorry.
Not in red camp dude. Do you even know what red camp is for? I would honest to god love to hear what you think red camps ânoisy campâ label means.
See, thatâs my kind of party there! Still quiet than the inside of my dodge at speed.
The good:
- Showers were fucking awesome. Crazy Joe did a stellar job and was very responsive and quick to help when people let him know the water went cold.
- I very much enjoyed Serephinaâs âdonât get wetâ waterfall walk. It was just a silly little thing but it was a lot of fun and I could tell a lot of thought went into putting it together.
- Against all expectations, the food was actually pretty damn good. Kudos to all the kitchen staff!
- I was very happy with the quality of the sponsor/patron shirts!
The bad:
- Iâm going to echo the concerns of many here about the music. While it didnât prevent myself or my tentmates from being able to sleep, I can absolutely understand others having an issue with the noise levels. The music was blaring through red camp on ALL of Saturday, and didnât finally stop until well after 2 AM, which I believed was the agreed upon âquiet time.â Campers in blue camp should not be kept awake by red campâs shenanigans.
- On Saturday night, shortly after the cider tasting, there was an obviously incredibly drunk guy who was literally screaming Irish drinking songs in the kitchen. This was after 10 PM, when the expectation was that people would start quieting down. Now I donât want to take away anyoneâs fun, but was the kitchen really the best place to have the cider tasting? People who took part obviously had a lot of fun with it and I donât want them to not have it, but hosting it in the kitchen, right across from BLUE CAMP, is not an appropriate place. Iâd suggest moving it to red camp or politely reminding all who take part to be mindful of their noise level.
Hey, folks! Soma here, resident public safety dragon. First of all, Iâd like to really thank folks for your feedbackâŚthis is these are the sort of very important perspectives that are difficult to hear on-site, and it helps us improve the event for the future. To that end, Iâd like to give folks a little bit of context for the noise discussion, and clarify the actual rule.
After 2am, the only special things [read:disruptive] that are allowed in camp are in Red camp, and are limited to light and art installations. Noise of all kind following 2am needs to be contained to localized areasâŚin other words, if you arenât standing at a given campfire / yurt / soundstage, you wonât be able to hear it.
We have this rule in place for a number of reasons, not the least of which to accommodate all different types of campers. Weâve had a bit of noise creep over the last few years, and weâre currently determining the best way to go about resolving this so that everyone has a positive experience at Campfire Tails. For those of you complaining, I hear you loud (heh) and clear; Iâm very sensitive to light and sound, especially at night. That being said, revelry, creativity, and self-expression are core to our event, and we understand that there are channels where this can be done appropriately, and improved!
Please let me know if you have any questions.
Soma
As some feedback for the forum moderators, I donât think itâs really conducive to the open sharing of opinions by all to allow people to aggressively shout down honestly and politely expressed feedback.
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